You aren't the only one!

Join me in today’s episode as I walk you through stage 1 of the Money Success Roadmap where I will discuss the step-by-step actions that you can take to help you with your financial journey like creating a basic budget, monthly meal plan, and one month of smart goals.

Hosting Today:
I'm Ashley Patrick, ex detective turned debt-free CEO of my very own business and stay at home mom of three. Not too long ago, my dreams of staying at home with my kids seemed impossible. I thought I'd have to stay miserable in a high stress demanding job, just so I could retire someday.

After gaining the confidence in my own ability to manage my family's finances and a simple step-by-step plan to make it happen, I was able to pay off $45,000 in just 17 months, which then allowed me to finally quit my job, stay at home with my kids, and build a debt-free business.

Now, my mission is to help moms like you conquer debt and free themselves from the mental load of handling their family's finances.

“When you break it down into stages, into smaller bite-sized steps and you have a clear action plan for each stage and that's all you focus on, you're focusing on one thing at a time. You can see how you can get there and you don't have to worry about how you're going to get there because you have a step by step plan to get you there and exactly what to do and how and what to follow. And literally the action steps to take to move from one stage to the next.”
- Ashley Patrick

Timestamps
01:19 - Introduction
02:35 - What is the Money Success Roadmap?
04:19 - Stage 1
09:38 - Step by step actions that you can take
10:21 - Creating a basic budget and a monthly meal plan
12:42 - Creating one month of smart goals
15:12 - Moving on to the Stage 2

Starting and sticking to a money plan doesn't need to be overwhelming! Join my Money Plan Bootcamp where I'll teach you the 5 key steps for creating a money plan you can actually stick to...for FREE!⁣⁣ Go to www.budgetsmadeeasy.com/bootcamp and register today!

And if you enjoyed the podcast today and got some great takeaways, I’d really appreciate it if you followed the Money Mindset Podcast so you don’t miss out on future episodes

Resources and Links Mentioned:

• The Money Plan Bootcamp: www.budgetsmadeeasy.com/bootcamp

Connect with Ashley:

• Instagram: www.instagram.com/budgetsmadeeasy

You aren’t the only one. There are so many who ask the same question and have a similar problem.

Join me in today’s episode where I answer a question that was submitted about what you can do to stick to your budget and get back on track when you feel like you’re constantly falling behind.

Hosting Today:
Hey, I’m Ashley Patrick, a personal finance expert and founder of Budgets Made Easy. I help busy moms create systems to save money and pay off debt so they can reach their big dreams faster and easier.

I was able to pay off $45,000 in just 17 months including $25,000 in student loans in just 10 months. I’m a Master Financial Coach and have a bachelor's degree in psychology and will help you get to the root of your money problems.

Since my journey started I have been featured on Fox Business, Yahoo! Finance, Food Network, USA TODAY, MSN, CNBC, NerdWallet, and many others.

“Just imagine what you could do in life if you didn't have so many bills. If you just had to pay your rent or mortgage, what could you do with all that extra money that right now you're sending to debt. Dream big because you are worth so much more, you are capable of so much more.”
Ashley Patrick

Timestamps
00:47 - Question of the week
03:01 - Taking advantage of free resources when homeschooling
04:16 - Figure out what's setting you behind
06:31 - Make it difficult to access the money
09:31 - Accountability and implementation
12:55 - Planning your finances for the rest of the year

Do you need time, space and accountability to take action on the things you KNOW you should be doing? Budgeting so you can actually pay off debt, save money, make a meal plan and all the things that keep pushing their way down your to-do list. Would you thrive in a supportive community of other busy moms who get it and are also working to achieve similar financial goals?

If that’s a YES, I invite you to sign up for the Money Success Coaching Group at budgetsmadeeasy.com/msc. There is a flash sale running from July 14th, 2022 until July 17th, 2022 at 11:59 PM Eastern time. Take action to change your finances and what the rest of your year looks like. Doors will open again in October, so if you’re past waiting for making the changes you’d like, join us!

Resources and Links Mentioned:

• Budget Starter Kit - budgetsmadeeasy.com/start
• Budgeting Workshop - budgetsmadeeasy.com/workshop
• Money Success Coaching Group - budgetsmadeeasy.com/msc

Connect with Ashley:

• IG: www.instagram.com/budgetsmadeeasy

• Have you ever wondered what it takes to travel in style and luxury on a budget?
• Need to know the best credit cards to use, to gain the most points and avoid fees?
• Want to learn how you could extend your hotel stay at Disney by 3 days? Listen in as Danielle shares her best tips for using credit cards to have affordable and luxury travels around the world.

Meet Danielle:

Danielle Desir Corbett is the host of The Thought Card Podcast, an affordable luxury travel and personal finance podcast empowering financially savvy travelers to travel more and build wealth. She is also the author of several travel and personal finance books including "Affording Travel" and "Traveling With a Full-Time Job."

“Really make sure that whatever this card is offering, aligns with what you value and what you're most likely going to need and take advantage of.” - Danielle Desir Corbett

Timestamps
03:18 - Danielle's Story
06:13 - How to get started with travel hacking
08:24 - How does the credit card points work?
10:42 - How to effectively use your credit card
12:21 - Favorite credit card to get started
13:55 - No fee v fee credit card
15:12 - Type of perks you get with your credit card
16:02 - Using your cards outside of the US
18:23 - Best system and tips for tracking your cards
20:59 - Additional benefits that come with your card
21:48 - How much can you save by being more intentional with your card spending?

Want to take the stress off your shoulders? Ready to learn how to create AND stick to your budget?! Check out my Free Workshop: How to Create and Stick to a Budget (even when you are overwhelmed)! Go to budgetsmadeeasy.com/workshop and get started today.

And if you enjoyed the podcast today and got some great takeaways, I’d really appreciate it if you followed the Money Mindset Podcast so you don’t miss out on future episodes.

Resources and Links Mentioned:

• FREE Budget Starter Kit - www.budgetsmadeeasy.com/start
• Affording Travel: Saving Strategies For Financially Savvy Travelers (ebook): https://www.amazon.com/Affording-Travel-Strategies-Financially-Travelers-ebook/dp/B0837YHQZK
• Book Recommendation: We Should All Be Millionaires by Rachel Rodgers - (affiliate link) https://amzn.to/3mLb5WD

Connect with Ashley:

• Instagram: www.instagram.com/budgetsmadeeasy

Connect with Danielle:

• Instagram: www.instagram.com/thedanielledesir
• Twitter: www.twitter.com/thethoughtcard
• Website: www.thoughtcard.com
• Podcast: www.podcast.thoughtcard.com

Special Guest: Danielle Desir Corbett.

Listen in as I explain why I quit Dave Ramsey and why I prefer being a Master Financial Coach.

My mission is to encourage you to pay off your debt and do better with your finances so that you can have the option to do what you want in life. WITHOUT name calling and brashness.

Hosting Today:

Hey I’m Ashley Patrick and I’m a personal finance expert, and founder of Budgets Made Easy. I helps busy moms create systems to save money and pay off debt so they can reach their big dreams faster and easier.

I was able to pay off $45,000 in just 17 months including $25,000 in student loans in just 10 months. I’m a Master Financial Coach and have a bachelor's degree in psychology and will help you get to the root of your money problems.

Since my journey started I have been featured on Fox Business, Yahoo! Finance, Food Network, USA TODAY, MSN, CNBC, NerdWallet, and many others.

“There's flexibility in a financial plan. It's not a one size fits thing. I promise you that personal finance is personal and money is emotional.” - Ashley Patrick

Timestamps
03:13 - Ashley's Journey with Dave Ramsey
05:06 - What Ashley achieved following Dave's book
05:58 - Why Ashley started moving away from Dave's teaching
07:06 - Things you need a good credit score for
11:00 - Why brashness isn't the answer for long term success
14:18 - Where does Ashley stand now?
15:23 - Barriers to getting your finances in order
16:43 - What Ashley's readers think about Dave Ramsey

• Are you wondering how to start and stick to a budget, even when you are overwhelmed?
• Don’t understand why the heck you can't seem to save each month?
• Fed up of not knowing where your money is going?

Check out my Free Workshop: How to Create and Stick to a Budget (even when you are overwhelmed)! Go to budgetsmadeeasy.com/workshop and get started today.

And if you enjoyed the podcast today and got some great takeaways, I’d really appreciate it if you followed the Money Mindset Podcast so you don’t miss out on future episodes.

Resources and Links Mentioned:
Free Workshop: How to Create and Stick to a Budget - www.budgetsmadeeasy.com/workshop

Connect with Ashley:
Instagram: www.instagram.com/budgetsmadeeasy

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Free Printable Holiday Budget Planner: https://leads.budgetsmadeeasy.com/holiday-planner/
Blog posts about saving money: https://www.budgetsmadeeasy.com/category/saving-money/

Budget Spreadsheet w/Christmas budget: https://www.budgetsmadeeasy.com/category/spreadsheet

Resources mentioned in this episode:
[Free Debt Snowball Starter Pack](www.budgetsmadeeasy.com/debt-bundle/)
You Need A Budget Book by Jesse Mecham (aff link) https://amzn.to/3T4PeIe
End Financial Stress Now by Emily Guy Burkin
Budgeting 101 by Michele Cagan

Full Transcript:

Welcome to the money mindset podcast where you will find the inspiration and motivation you need to manage your money better so you can stress less and live the life you want. Today we are talking with Bobby Olsen from the sensible chat podcast and we're going to talk to her about her favorite budgeting tips and how she paid off $50,000 in about two years. So she gives us some really great advice on how to budget your money better so that you can pay off your debt fast and work on that money mindset so that you can do it without being miserable. Uh, but before we jump into her interview, don't forget you can get your free debt snowballs starter pack. So debt, snowball worksheets, spreadsheet, checklists, everything you need to get a jumpstart on your debt snowball. It is free and you can grab it at budgetsmadeeasy.com/debt-bundle and I will link to it in the show notes as well. So welcome Bobby. Hey Bobby, thanks for being with us today.

Thanks so much for having me, Ashley.

Thanks for being here. And you know, we've been talking, chatting, so that my hug, I can't get my kids outside and have it be quiet for you guys. So I feel like I've already learned so much about you, but, um, you know, for our listeners that haven't heard you before, I know you have a podcast too, but can you tell us just a little bit about yourself and kind of, um, what you do to help people right now?

Sure. Well, my name is Bobby Olson and I'm the host of the sensible chat podcast and I'm also a budget coach. And so, um, I'm really focused on helping people with their money obviously, um, for the podcast that we definitely say that we're committed to helping people learn positive money mindsets, destroyed debt, reduce financial stress, and break the paycheck to paycheck cycle. So that's what we're focused on.

That's awesome. And tell us a little bit about like, how did you get started with, um, wanting to help people break the cycle of living paycheck to paycheck?

Well, you know, I've lived paycheck to paycheck all my life. And as most of us, you know, think at least at a certain time in our lives, I, I always just thought it was normal. Yeah. But I spent, you know, my younger years, I'm working in radio and actually my first job was for a, um, financial radio station and I, but I was just so bored with it, uh, that I didn't want to listen to any of the information. And so I went about my life and kinda got [inaudible] kept getting stuck back into financial radio for some reason. I don't know why. I guess it was my calling, I don't know. But, um, eventually I was, uh, producing a financial radio show, which I actually still am at this point. And, um, you know, we were just, we had had our own audio production company prior to me and my husband, and, uh, it had failed.

And so we were in a lot of debt. And so now I'm working this job, which should be my dream job because radio was what I was always passionate about. [inaudible] I just hated it. Um, and I really wanted out, I wanted something more, but we were so far in debt that I couldn't afford to take the pay cut. And I was just so frustrated and it seemed like we were never getting ahead. We were paying everything on time, but you know, and even paying a little bit on top of everything, but it just felt like we weren't getting anywhere. And so one day I actually ended up opening up one of the books that was sitting around my office cause we were all, you know, interviewing authors left and right for hinder views on this financial radio show. And so I opened up the book one day and she was talking about the debt snowball method.

She didn't call it that, but I found out later that's what it was. And she, she explained how it worked and I thought, no way could it be that easy, no way. And so I actually did it on paper for our situation trying to prove her wrong and I couldn't, I mean it worked on paper. I thought, Oh my, this is like a lifesaver. How could it be this easy? And I was so excited. I told my husband, we got to do this. And he's like, all right, cool. You know, whatever. You just like, my husband is like, yeah, whatever you want to do. Yeah, that's good. So I did it. We, you know, we went on this path and Oh my gosh, it just changed our lives and it was so easy and it was so exciting to me that this could be done and just relieve by stress.

And, and I, I finally had hope that was the biggest thing. It gave me hope so I could see the light at the end of the tunnel at which kept me going through the whole process. And so it was just such a huge life changer for me that I just wanted to scream it from the rooftops and say, Hey, you know, anybody else that's feeling this way, I can help you stop. Look, it's this easy, you know? And so yeah, that's where my passion to help others with it came from. That's awesome. So how much did you end up paying off? Yeah. Uh, we paid off about it would probably be, you know, I, I was so excited when we got started and everything. I'd never really looked at the numbers, but, um, I would guess it was about $50,000. Wow. And how fast did you do that?

It took us about two years. Wow. We really got serious. Yeah. Yeah. And so now you said your husband was like, sure. Whatever, you know, was he, I'm like, how involved was he did or did you have to like kind of like drag him along? You know, I know I hear so many stories about like, you know, people not being on the same page and everything. We were, I mean, he was all for it, but it was like, okay, I'm all for whatever you're doing, but you take care of it. Yeah. That sounds like my husband. Yeah. Which in some ways is good because you're like, okay, I'm just going to create this budget. If you're telling me you don't want to be a part of it, I'm not even gonna ask your opinion. We don't have to fight about it. I'm just going to create it and you're going to follow it.

That's fine. You know? And he's like, okay, I'm good with that. You know, it works out in that way and it's great. There's some times when I wished he was a little bit more involved because, you know, then it'd be like, it'd be less stress. Like he's always asking me do we have money for this or that? And I'm always like, ah, gosh, I hate that question. You know? I mean, it's so much easier to answer now cause I can just go to the budget. But I, I, it really took me a long time to quote, train him, for lack of a better word, to just, you know, cause I kept having to say, just go and check the budget. Don't, don't ask me that. Go and check the budget, you know? And so, but yeah, he's been totally on board with it, very supportive and uh, we've really worked together to make it happen.

That's awesome. So what were some of the things that you did to pay off this debt? So you made, you know that you use the debt snowball, it sounds like, and you know, worked on a budget and everything, but what were kind of the, some of the practical steps that you did to make it go so fast?

Yeah. Well, one of the things that I did, the biggest thing was I budgeted high for every bill and every expense. So I just took like the last, I looked at my electric bill and I said, what's the highest amount it's been in the last 12 months. Okay. 130 bucks. So that's what I budget every month, even though, you know, during the summer it would be half that. And so every time that that money came in under budget, I could save the difference towards, yeah, I could put the difference towards my debt snowball. Awesome. Yeah. And so that really worked for me in all my bills, all my expenses, you know, our grocery budget, whatever it was. If there was money there that didn't get used, it went towards our debt.

That's awesome. And so did you, um, you don't track your spending like before whenever you got started and were you like shocked about any category that was higher than you expected? Yeah, we totally, well, we've always done that. We've always tracked our spending. Um, that was the one thing that we did even before we got on a formal budget because we were just always, you know, didn't want to be negative in our bank account. So we were always very good about that. But, and so it wasn't shocking, but it was just the biggest change that we had to make was like everybody else. It was the eating out. Yup. Same here. I'm still like struggle with it. Yeah. Yeah. It's the biggest struggle for sure. And so that's what we had to reign in the most. And you know, we knew it, we just didn't want to do it. But once we were able to get on a formal budget, the good news was, this was the other thing that we did to, um, really follow the budget and, you know, pay off things quickly.

Is that right? Instead of, because before we would just, we would pay the bills, everything needed to be paid and then the rest was our play money and that was it. And so we paint it. When we actually started budgeting, do now we give ourselves an allowance. So every week we got a certain amount, but that was it. If there was extra money quote laying around, no, it went to our debt snowball. It didn't go to our eating out or whatever. And so that was the other way that we curved it and still had so we could still, you know, go out once in a while here or there, but only if we stayed within our budgeted money for that purpose.

[inaudible] awesome. So did you, um, do anything like, um, cash envelopes or,
yeah, um, I actually started with that because, um, when I first made the budget I didn't know about that. And then when I got really excited about making a budget and paying everything off, I found out from my mom, she, she lived, um, you know, across the country at the time. And so, you know, I wasn't right there next door, so we weren't interacting every day. So I didn't know that somebody had given her financial peace university. Yeah. And I was like, mom, why didn't you share this with me? Yeah. And so one time when I was visiting her, she actually gave me the program and so I, I went through that program and yeah. Then found out about the cash envelope system and I thought, wow, that was, that really, really helped us a lot to stay on target and especially, and the ending. But what I found out through the process was it was really great.
The cash envelope system is a really great concept, but we kept like, we would go to the grocery store and they go, Oh, we forgot the Pash. Oh no, carry it with us. We had it like in our, in our, um, filing cabinet home. We had all these envelope filing because we didn't want to carry all this cash all the time. Oh yeah. We kept going places and we were like, we don't have the cash. What are we going to do? We drive home. Who used the car and it got really complicated for us and not positions. Oh, okay. We, I, I was perfect for, I'm like [inaudible] there's gotta be something where we can do this digitally, like a digital cash envelope system. And then I found why NAB, you need a budget. And that's what worked for me and just totally [inaudible] change things because now we still knew the quote, passion envelope system, but it's just digital and full of cash.

Oh, awesome. Yeah, I've run into, I still run into that for certain things, but I actually have like, um, cash envelope wallet and so I just carry like certain categories with me all the time, like food. Um, but yeah, th the, it'll be like, I'll leave one here because I didn't, I don't want to carry that much cash and I don't need it right now and then when I need it, I've
forgot it. Yeah. [inaudible] yeah, definitely.

Um, so how has your mindset changed since you started changing the way you budget and you've paid off your debt?
Oh my gosh. I mean, it's like night and day. Um, I mean the mindset changed for me as soon as I found the hope, then it was like the world is my oyster. I mean, I really bought into, you can afford anything, just not necessarily everything. And so how, you know, having the freedom to decide what I really wanted and going for that because I was raised with a poor mindset. I mean, I just, you're poor. You can't afford anything and not the way it's always going to be, period. End of story. And so when I finally figured out that that wasn't the case, it was just so freeing and so exciting and Mmm. You know, discovering all these different [inaudible] that's tricks on, on how to make it work just really freed my mind. And, um, yeah, so, so the mindset just went from, okay, you know, hopeless to hope. That's the biggest thing.

And that's really what I try to, um, help people with is get them to realize that there is hope and then everything else will follow. So that is, that's awesome. Um, what tips do you have for somebody that's wanting to pay off debt or manage their money better? Like what are some of your top tips?

Okay, well, the, the top one is, you know, the one that we talked about earlier, just budgeting high for everything so that you, you know, have that money all the time. It's kind of tricking yourself into saving, for lack of a better term. And then of course, the allowance that I mentioned, that's been a really good one for us. Um, um, also, you know, budgeting low for your income. So if you have, you know, if your income, Barry's always low. Um, and I, I've found that that works on two levels because not only does it, you know, it just, it stops you from not having enough money. You know, if you have a budget in place and your paycheck comes in lower than expected, then you're kind of freaking out, always at least that amount, then higher is always gravy. Um, beyond that, let's see, what else have we on?

Mmm. Yeah. I mean, you know, we went, we didn't really there. There's a lot of things that you always hear, like, you know, take your lunch to work and don't buy coffee out and everything. And we were already kind of doing that. Mmm. So those things didn't change for us, but really focusing on the goals because [inaudible] getting out of debt. I mean, when you're trying to get out of debt, obviously that's your first priority. Okay. Mmm. And so just throw everything chords that that you possibly can, but you also have to have a reason why. Like what do you want beyond that? Because if you don't, then you know, easy to fall off the track and just say, forget it. I want what I want and you know, so I'm just gonna no, not get out of debt. And then of course you, you add it later. Oh, absolutely.

What are some things that you did to kind of stay motivated the those two years?

Okay. Really focused again on, well, for me the biggest motivation was just knowing that when I finally got out of debt, I could decide whether I wanted to stay at this job or take another one. It was freedom for me, my biggest motivator was the freedom that was going to come out of it. And really that's been a motivator, know for everything. And I, I mean, I tell people that all the time. It's like, I mean, if you control your money, then you control your life. And I just felt so out of control over my whole life that that was the biggest thing I wanted to change. And so, yeah, really just Oh thing on how much freedom I could have if I just had or resources to decide how I was going to live my life.

[inaudible] I always say that it gives you options, so like if you want to quit your job, you know, your story is very similar to mine actually. And so, um, you know, I just always tell people that it just gives you options like, and it gives you, like you said, freedom, but it's like the freedom to make the choices that you want, whatever they are. Like, it gives you that opportunity, so. Absolutely. That's great. Um, do you have any last words of wisdom or advice for somebody? Like, just, uh, get them to do it. Just get them moving. Just really focus on what it is that you want out of life. You know, I've decided, I mean, I've, of course you read this everywhere. It's not me that decided it, but I've really bought into the mindset that money is just a tool that's the resource. You know, there's all this shame around things and you know, I wish that I could just take that away from people because no matter what, you know, the place you're in today, you can change it and it doesn't make you a bad person. Oh, made financial mistakes. I mean, it's just the same thing as using a hammer wrong. You know, I mean, it's that simple. So I don't feel shame when I use a hammer wrong. And I don't think anybody should feel shame when they, you know, use their money wrong. We all knew that stuff.

And you know, but wrong is relative. It's all about what you want out of life. And so if you can focus on what your goals and dreams are, then [inaudible] budget is just a plan to help you reach that goal. And that's the [inaudible] the biggest thing, reason that I tell people, you know, to budget and, and do spending plans and everything is because that's the best way that you're going to reach your goal and get what you want out of life. It's not about restricting what you do, it's about the freedom to choose in your life.

That's awesome. Um, and I did not warn you of this, so you've added thinking about it for a second, but I always ask people what is their favorite nonfiction books? You've probably heard that, you know, most millionaires read like one book a month or something like that. And so, you know, I always like to motivate people to, um, find a book to just improve their lives and stop wasting so much time watching TV and things. So do you have a favorite nonfiction book?

I actually do. And I was prepared for that because I've been listening to your podcast, so I know it's asked that question. And so I thought a lot about it and I was like, wow, I actually have free. So have you [inaudible] they all serve different purposes for me. Why NAB new need a budget? It was a book that changed my life because I had sound the app, what? I couldn't figure out how to use it. I didn't understand the mindset behind it. Different from really traditional budgeting. There a mindset is that you can only budget money that you already have today in your account. And so for me, there's a difference now between budgeting and and a spending plan because the budget is where your money is today. That's in your account. That spending plan is a plan of what you're going to do with the money that is coming from your neck.
PayTech Oh, that's interesting. That's good. I didn't even know there was a book app obviously, but I didn't know the right, the book totally changed my life and like I said, I could not figure out how to use the software or the app before I read the book. When I read it, Oh, it was like [inaudible] I get it. And it helped me really understand budgeting in a way bigger, ah, like longer term than just month to month because month to month budgeting cuffing me up, you know, the oil paint is come up every quarter and things like that. I just kept forgetting the budget from them and so why not really helped me focus on, you know, long term budgeting, how to break it down and just, you know, there were so many wonderful tools in there.

It changed my life and I recommend that book to everybody regardless of whether you're going to use their budgeting app or not.

It just changes your mindset about money and my view. Oh awesome. Yeah. And then the second one is a book called N financial stress now by Emily Guy Birken. And I read this book a couple years ago before I started the podcast and when I started it I reached out to her and she actually responded and I was so honored because I got to interview her for the podcast and it's, her book is just for any income level because I was at the, you know, low income level and sell. That's who I kind of target with my podcast and her book is just so freeing for anybody at any level because it's not about know hips and tricks that you might only be able to do if you have this much money or that much money, whatever. No, it's about money mindsets and strategies. It just helped you think differently about your money and figure out how to, it empowers you instead of being feeling like a victim about your money, like there's nothing you can do about it. It changes your mindset to what can I do about it regardless of what money I have or do not have. And I thought that was a fabulous tool. That's great. Yeah, that's, that's exactly, you know what we're trying to do with this podcast and what you're doing with your podcast and everything, so I think that is awesome. I'll have to check that out. Oh, and what was the third one? Oh, and the third one is budgeting one Oh one by Michelle Kagan.

She's written a ton of great books, but budgeting one Oh one is, it's, it's like your toolbox. It really gives you the specific, uh, strategies, different methods, um, and really great tips and tricks for creating your budget and following your budget, getting out of guts, smart spending, all of that stuff. Oh that's great. Cause you know, there are different methods to do it. And what I try and tell people is just find what works for you. It may be a little bit of what I say, maybe a little bit of what Dave Ramsey says or what you say. You know, it's really just finding a system that will work for you. Cause that's really all that matters is that it works for you and that it'll help you do it. Yeah, exactly. Achieve your goal. There's no right or wrong way. Yeah, I agree. Because Dave Ramsey, I love Dave Ramsey and, but there's so many people that are so willing to go gazelle like that.

And then there's other people that just, you know, can't, I mean I felt like, nah, I need a little bit of a Slack in there. Otherwise it's like a crash diet for me. I'm just not going to do it, you know? And so, but yeah, I mean, whatever works for you is just, that's fabulous. And look, go down that road, you're out what it is. Yeah, exactly. You know, and everybody processes information different. Like, um, you know, I always recommend to have people write their budget down, especially at first just because it ingrains it into your mind, but some people like spreadsheets, you know, some people like apps. So it's really just finding what works for you. So that's a great book as well. And just finding different, you know, researching different methods to see if there's something that if you can take a little bit from each one and kind of put it together, make your own thing.

Before we go, where can people find you and learn some more about you? Oh, they can go to my website@sensiblechat.com and that's sensible with a C. so it's like, since [inaudible] awesome. We'll chat back up and we will link to it in the show notes as well. Are you, um, do you have a favorite social media platform? Are you on anything? Yeah, I'm on Facebook. Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn so you can find me all those busy. Yeah, I love Instagram. I've just really, um, you know, I'm on Facebook all the time and so I never really got into Instagram until maybe the last couple months I think. But I really, I'm enjoying Instagram, so, wow. I just got on Instagram too at my husband's B house. He's like really got to get on it. I'm like, I'm still struggling with it because you know, it's just so different and I don't have a lot of pictures and videos so I know that is hard cause then I'll be like, Oh I want to post this but I don't have a picture so that I have to like try and figure out a picture to post to with it with what I want to say.

But yeah, I'm enjoying it though. And so, um, yes, go check him out on Instagram as well. So, um, and I will link to everything in the show notes so that you can go to her website and check it out as well. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks for being here. Thank you. Thank you so much to Bobby for being with us today, and don't forget to go grab your debt snowball starter packs so that you can get started on paying off debt as well.

Go to budgetsmadeeasy.com/debtbundle and I will link to it into the show notes as well. I will talk to you next week. Bye.

Special Guest: Bobbi Olsen.

Adam H. Kol, J.D. is a Couples Financial Counselor. He helps couples who love each other make sure that the money conversation doesn't get in the way, allowing them to experience greater peace and love. Adam draws on over a decade of experience as a Certified Mediator, Communication Coach, and a former Tax Attorney and Financial Advisor. Adam received his law degree from Duke and a Master's in Tax Law from NYU. Through working with Adam, couples have gone from the verge of divorce to being best friends, all while making huge financial progress. Adam’s work is informed by perspectives of equity and social justice. He is an experienced community organizer, as well as a lifelong musician.

You can find Adam's amazing resources at www.ahkcoaching.com and follow him on social media at @ahkcoaching or on Linked in at Adam H. Kol, J.D.

Resouces mentioned in this episode:

The Essential Money Conversation Checklist: http://eepurl.com/gbTPc1
To schedule a complimentary Financial Harmony Consultation with Adam: http://bit.ly/financialharmonyconsultation
Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/moneymarriage/

Favorite nonfiction books:
The Wisdom of Insecurity by Alan Watts
Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas Juhn

Full transcript:
It's exciting and I'm grateful to be able to share what I do. Uh, which is, I specialize in working with couples who as you said, I mean they're in a relationship, things are going pretty well. Um, just money is a difficult topic for them. I mean I've also worked with couples who are having more avoidance or fights around money. Um, I've even had couples come to me on the verge of divorce, as intense as that and I've been able to help them get back to being best friends again while also paying off a ton of debt and getting businesses restarted and all kinds of wonderful outcomes. Uh, my goal is to help people and couples come together, get closer, more intimacy, more connection, more love and more partnership. And I actually do that through working on their money stuff, helping them talk about money, helping them understand their own relationship to money. And I like to use art as well to help people kind of draw out their own interrelationship to money so that they can use that to further their partnership with their significant other.
Yep. That's great. Because, you know, we each have to work on our own money mindsets, but then when you're with a couple of, you know, you, you have to work, you both have to work on the individual mindset and then work together. So that's a pretty, um, pretty big task to try and work on your own mindset and then drain other on it. So, so what is the number one thing that couples can do to work together on their finances?
Yeah, I mean, the number one thing is, is talk and listen, right? Like, um, the money is an area of life and relationships. Just like so many others in our minds, it's, we kind of separate it and make it as if it's somehow really distinct. Maybe because we're afraid of the numbers and maybe because we didn't grow up talking about money. It's a taboo topic. We're afraid of it. There's some shame around it. All of which is very common. Um, but the biggest thing is to talk, so your partner, share your thoughts, share your fears, share your hopes and dreams and ask them about theirs and listen to theirs. Right. And, um, a lot of times what I see is that couples will get caught up in, uh, some something on the surface level. Like, oh, we shouldn't have spent $45 on this item. And what's really missing is that they are not align, they're not on the same page. And the way to get there is through that talking and through that listening.
And so I always tell people to, you know, dream together. So just like you said, you know, make sure or work on your goals and have the same like big goal. Um, and you know, a lot of times, and um, correct me if I'm wrong on your aspect and how you see things with working with couples is, um, I totally where I was going with that. Oh, compromise. You know, sometimes you just have to compromise a little bit because you know, especially if both people think that they need to be right or their way is the right way. Um, and it is just kinda like compromising a little bit, giving a little bit both of them so that they can come together and work on the [inaudible] bigger picture. And so like you said, you know, worrying about like the smaller amounts but focus on the big things.
Yeah, absolutely. And of course each situation is different. And for some couples, the, you know, the smaller things may be important if you're living paycheck to paycheck or really struggling. Um, and that happens a lot to families in the u s uh, but it's like about having that, like you said, those shared dreams. And um, I once said like, there's not right or wrong in relationships. There's just intimacy and you know, there's this point where you're like, well, what is right? What is wrong? Like, who, not to be all philosophical, but it's like, is that really what matters? Right? We get caught up in it because we're human and we have an ego and it's our blessing and our curse. And yet like to be able to step back and say, okay, is how I'm showing up right now in service of the kind of partner I want to be in, the kind of relationship I want to have.
Right? And it's okay if the answer's no because again, you're human and we all have times where we show up, not the self we really want to be. However, to be able to be in that inquiry, that self reflection, notice it and then step back and be able to be like, whoa, take a breath. Go to your partner and be like, I'm sorry I was kind of being a butthead. Right? And, um, can we revisit this? Because you love your partner, you have shared, you want to live your best lives individually and as a couple and as a family if you have one. Right? So the point is to get over there, right? Not to necessarily be right or wrong. Um, and that just the best way to get there, like I said, is just to take a breath, step back, take a look at your behavior. As I once saw someone say like, am I in like a space of love right now? Am I coming from love or am I coming from like fear? Right? And if you, the more you can come from love, the better your is going to be. And then by the time you get down to the budgeting, then it'll be seamless to implement the expertise of whatever you're doing in your budget or someone like your programs. Because if you're on the same page and there's no resistance, now it's just a matter of doing the work.
Absolutely. So where, where should couples start when they can't agree on how to manage their money or their budget? Like when they're just butting heads. Like what is some advice that you would give a couple that comes to you and they just cannot seem to agree on how to handle their money?
Yeah, it's a great question and it's very right. And this is something that cuts across the income and like class categories, no matter how much people are making or not, they will often still have this struggle. Um, and the first place that I like to go with couples is to have them each do a little bit of digging into their own money mindset and then share that with each other because it's a safe entryway to the money conversation. See, a lot of people are used to either not having money conversations or when they do, they're like super awkward, super uncomfortable. They may lead to a lot of arguing or tension. And so I like to get it started by getting a healthy conversation under your belt. And when you're just talking about your own history with money in your own past, there's not really anything to argue about.
It's just kind of like, here's how it was for me growing up. This is some of the messages I internalized about money based on Xyz, based on my family, based on my gender or my race or whatever, and the societal norms and stuff like that. You know, I find that to be a pretty safe conversation for people to get started with. Um, and the other thing is to just have the courage to ask for a conversation with your significant other. And to frame it in a constructive way. Like it's not like, hey, we need to talk about our budget. Right? It's actually like, you know what, I love you. I want to have the best possible life together. We can. And money I know is an important part of that. And I'm a little bit anxious because we haven't been talking about it or are actively managing it.
So like when can we have a conversation about that? Right. Something like that that actually frames it. So they see that your teammates, right. Cause a lot of times, like you said, they're having trouble managing their money together. It starts to feel like they're in opposition to each other. Like they're kinda not rowing in the same direction and just reasserting like, hey, we're talking about this because we're teammates because we're looking to both have great lives. Like, I want a great life for myself and I want a great life for you as my partner who I love. Um, so really just creating that context is powerful.
Yes. I love that. That's really great advice. So what tips, um, just to kind of flow into the next topic, this is kind of related then, is what tips would you have for couples to kind of goal plan together? So once they get like on the same mindset or they, you know, maybe understand each other's mindset a little bit better and then moving forward to the next step, you know, goal planning so that they are working together toward the same goal.
Yeah, just like be inside of like love and curiosity within four and about each other. Like, because it's very common for people to not even, we don't even know what we want, knowing what our partners want. Um, and that's an inquiry that is ongoing and changes over time. Um, so just really creating the space to have that conversation. If you've never had it before, you know, it doesn't have to be painful or exacting. It's just like whatever intimacy looks like for you and your partner, you know, do that. Some people, it's light a candle or open a glass of wine or have a nice meal or just cuddle on the couch, you know, whatever it is, create that space where your care for each other as present for both of you. And then just talk about it. Um, and one thing I've been playing with and just kind of an idea that I've had that I tossed out to my girlfriend recently came out of one of my coaching calls, um, is to play with different scenarios.
Like be like, what if we did this? Because sometimes I feel like we have this pressure that we have to just somehow magically know what our top choices, like what we want. And it almost like we have to call Alessa out of thin air versus being like, okay, what if we like worked 50 hours a week now and then retired when we were 55 versus like, you know, working 40 hours a week now and like retiring when we're 65. Like how do you think about those two? Right? And it's not that life is necessarily gonna go exactly that way, but it's always powerful to have a plan and you can always adjust. But like, you know, actually kind of sketch out some different ideas or scenarios and then talk through what are your thoughts on something like that. How does that make you feel? What would be not so good about that?
What would be really awesome about that? Right. And ask these like, I like to call them, well they're called open ended questions where it's not like a yes or no question because it's like you want to retire at 55 is like a yes or no answer and that's fine sometimes, but it's like, what are your thoughts on retirement? Or like, tell me about how you think about when you want to retire or like what are the important considerations for you around retirement, right. You give the other person this like expansive space where they can really think for themselves and, uh, get a richer response.
Yeah. And just kinda dream together. You know, my husband and I, um, you know, with building my business and really wanting to make this like a fulltime thing possibly even for both of us and you know, we sit and we dream about what if we got an RV and just traveled out west and just traveled the country and you know, just having the freedom to be able to do whatever we wanted to because you know, with, with my job in podcast and a blog and all that, I can, you know, as long as I have a computer and Internet I can go anywhere. So, you know, just being able to like dream with your partner about different ideas of what you might want to do or do want to do in the future and Kinda like how to make that happen. I think that is great.
Absolutely. I love what you're visioning as well with your husband and you know, I encourage listeners, I give yourself and your your significant other like complete latitude, like even ideas that might seem ludicrous or like, oh I don't know, we can't do that. Just dream. Just let them just let the words flow, let the ideas flow. Even if all you get is a temporary feeling of excitement and like that excitement and nervousness and the liveliness, right you've been, that is a beautiful thing to experience. But um, just let the ideas flow. You never know. I mean, I was, I have a couple I'm working with. They came to me like their relationships great, but money is uncomfortable for them. They've been slacking on tracking it. Um, and so they wanted some support in that area. And where the conversation actually flowed was too, that each of them is underpaid in their current jobs.
And in having them examine that and uh, get coached to the point where they can go have a conversation with their boss. It's just like transpired. All these different things have transpired and now the wife is like, I actually don't know if I want to stay at this job. I might even want to change careers. There's some interest in starting my own business or even going back and taking some classes and then, yeah, that's true. We're not tied to the bay area anymore. If I'm not gonna work at that job, we could go wherever we want, like our husband's job. There's opportunities for him everywhere. And now they're just like thinking, right. They're like, maybe we're gonna get like a beach house in Monterey and go live there and like, awesome. And I don't know where it's going to go. It's up to them. Right. But they have now seen so much of what's possible doing this work.
Yeah. And they're excited about it now where when they came to you, they were, you know, stressed out and fighting and now they are dreaming together and seeing what's possible for their future. And that's, you know, that's what I want for people. That's so exciting.
Yeah. In fact, like, you know, there's folks like, you actually were like the budgeting experts and while I budget with my clients, my expertise is really on that emotional communication mindset, coaching piece of it. And like what tends to happen with my clients is like, I'll send them a budget template to fill in, but then they just do it themselves. And like with this couple that I was referencing though, I was like, yeah, now like when I do the budget, I'm, I'm super excited. It's not like stressful anymore. I just do it cause it's like I know that it's helping us achieve our goals. I'm like, okay, awesome. Great.
Yeah. Cause the, you know, it's really just the foundation or the stepping stone to getting, you know, what their big picture, their dream, you know, and that's, that's awesome that it's not stressful and overwhelming now because they have something to look forward to and something that they're working for. That's awesome.
Yeah. Yeah. I love it. They're awesome.
So what, um, so I get this a lot. Like even when, um, you know, somebody, they come to me, we're working on managing their money. Um, they get the budget done. They, they are excited about it, but then their spouse just is so reluctant they won't get on board with the budget. They sabotage it. Like they still take the debit card and they go to the gas station. Like they're still spending, even though you know, they need to work together. What is your advice for somebody that's like working really hard to do what they've done? The ground work, you know, they've laid it all out, the PR, you know, the spouse may be like, okay, I'm good with that. But then they turn around and they sabotage the budget anyway. Like what is your advice for a couple that is, that is dealing with that they're just one, one partner is just completely sabotaging it or not. I'm not, they're not on the same page, but they're just recklessly spending still. While one is trying really hard to manage the money better.
Yeah. Yeah. Great question. And I mean there's almost like a couple of questions in there. Um, but if the, you know, I guess I'll, I'll answer kind of like two questions that I heard. The first one is if one partner is struggling to have like the other person's not on board in general, then that's really where some of the things I've been talking about through this call and some of the other things I talk about, like on my youtube videos there are just really helpful for getting the conversation started. Because my recommendation is always, especially if you share funds with your partner, if you two live together, if you're planning a future together, then have like get them on board, right? These are conversations you should be having with both of you as far as creating your goals and your visions and your budget to implement that.
So that, you know, that's really the first place and that's just where getting in their world, understanding what's going on for them. And even if you have to, like I said, that framing of, look, I want to have a great life with you and I know this is an important part of it. Um, so when's a good time to have the conversation? Not like, do you want to talk about it? Like we need to talk about it. And you know, there's, I was at a, on a panel earlier this week and, or I guess it was technically last week now I got asked a very similar question to this and I said, you know, we need to expect our partners to be on board for these conversations just because it's been a taboo topic and past generations that doesn't work because we're missing out on our opportunity to thrive.
And it's creating anxiety and resentment and fear and worry and tension and fighting. It's number one cause of fights and relationships. It's the number one or number two cause of divorce in every study I've ever seen. Uh, at least for like us marriages. And this is a country with a huge divorce rate. So this is not some small beans, small potatoes, whatever you want to call it, kind of issue. This is something that needs to be tackled. And so you like, you got to come at it with that, right? The same way you come at it with like talking about where to live or where to have children or if there were challenges in your like intimate life. Like if those things, the same degree of seriousness with which you take those because of how much they matter to the integrity of your relationship, I think money's the same way.
And you know, there's no one way to do it, but holding your partner to account, like, look, we gotta be talking about this. This is an essential issue that touches every aspect of our lives. You want to buy a home? How are we going to do that without being on the same page financially? You want to have kids, how are we going to do that without being on the same page financially? You want to retire? How are we going to do that without being on the same page, financially start a business, et Cetera, right? It is that important. Um, and of course every day we're spending money. Every day we have bills to pay. Every day we buy lunch or groceries or whatever. So my, it's like we need to be holding our partners to account like, we need to talk about this. Right? Um, and you know, if they're hesitant, of course you want to bring compassion and love, you know, like why, you know, what comes up for you around this?
Why, you know, where do you think your hesitancy comes from? Or like, why don't you like it? Um, you know, and there's, that's where having them do some mindset work and understanding their money story can be really powerful because there's a reason they don't want to talk about it. You know, like for example, men, we're socialized that our value is in providing for our family. And so if we feel like a conversation is implying that we're not doing that job well, um, not at a conscious level even, but like unconsciously, it just triggers like a sense of shame. Like, we're not good enough. We're not doing what we're supposed to do as a man. And that becomes like an existential crisis. Even though the man may be completely unaware that this is what's happening for him, it's nevertheless often what's happening. And so, you know, to be able to traverse that bridge and get to the other side is not always easy, but it takes some listening, some questions, some empathy, some understanding and some patients, um, and uh, of course women have their own ways that they're socialized about money.
And that's like I said before, it's not just about gender, it's about race and sexual orientation. All of this stuff plays into how we see ourselves and how other people see us money. And so, uh, it takes a nuanced approach to really break through those barriers. Um, but the number one thing is to keep bringing your love, your empathy, your curiosity to that person. And it's honestly the same answer as if they're sabotaging the budget even if they agreed to it. Right. Cause if you just got them like you agreed to this budget and now you're sabotaging it, I mean you can, you know how that's going to go. It's not saying you shouldn't hold them accountable right in that spot. It's more like, hey, you know, I feel really like you want to kind of own your feelings. Like, I feel really anxious when I'm ICU using the debit card because we had agreed not to and this plan is really important for our future.
So I get scared. We're not going to be able to have the life we want. I'm like, can you tell me what's going on there for you? Right. Like, ask an open ended question again. Like, can you tell me what's happening there for you? Like, or you know, like in a non accusatory way, just as much as, as neutrally as possible. Right. Because there's a reason they use that debit card. They may not know it, but there's some sort of reason that they did. Right. Um, maybe they just don't like being told what to do. Right. And again, that's an unconscious thing. And so they're acting out kind of like a teenager, but that's cause it's like, you know, childhood crap that, Ooh, excuse my language, but childhood that hasn't been, uh, hasn't been dealt with. Right. Um, and so there's a lot of important work to do around mindset, which is a lot of the work you're doing, which is why it's so great. It's really important to examine that stuff.
That's great. I hadn't even thought about some of the subconscious things like that, so I'm really glad that you mentioned that. Um, so do you have any resources that you would recommend for couples? Um, either your stuff or you know, stuff that you highly recommend to kind of maybe help them work together to get on the same page? Books or workbooks or anything like that?
Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, one place that you can find me is I have a Facebook community. It's totally free and there's, we're having all kinds of conversations like this all the time. It's called money and marriage, but instead of the word and it's not written out, it's the like symbol, the ampersand, some money and marriage a and for sure if you go and join there, let, let me know that you heard about me through this podcast and uh, that'll be exciting to see. And I partnered there with another financial coaches and expert with couples and she's more the tactical and practical expert and I'm the more emotional and communication experts. So we provide a real full spectrum of content there. Um, and I have, uh, another thing, uh, that I put together and perhaps we can link to it in the show notes or something like that is a, I call it the essential money conversation checklist.
And so it's just eight steps that you want to take in each money conversation and you know, they're not what you'd think up front. You might kind of have a feel for what they are after listening to me speak here. But it's about like getting connected to your partner, making sure you're hearing and validating their feelings and then sharing your own and making sure that they understand where you're coming from. And then from there, once you two are actually on the same page emotionally and you're actually in partnership, that you really from there start to look for what compromise might be like, um, rather than trying to jump to it. You know, that's the number one thing I see couples want to go straight to the action items. And a lot of times there's some work beforehand that could really make it more powerful and more long lasting.
So I'll definitely put that link out there for you all. You got the money and marriage Facebook group and if there's anybody listening who's like, you know what, I'd really love to work with Adam directly. I work with couples in a wide range of situations. Like I said, even people come to me where it's a really serious challenging topic that's leading to a lot of fights, intention, happy to work with you. Also couples who are like our relationships, great. Money's just a kind of difficult topic. We don't know a lot about it. Um, also work with those couples and uh, have specific content for engaged couples to plan the wedding, make sure that they are sticking to their budget, talk to the family about the spendings and families usually chip in and uh, also to help them merge their finances with their fiance. And then I have also a specific content for a first time home buyers to be able to get on the same page with their partner for what's gonna be the biggest and longest purchase of your life. You know, you want to make sure that front end. So I help people get on the same page with that and get on top of their finances.
Oh, that's great. I will link to all those in the show notes as well. And just one last question. I like to always ask people what their favorite nonfiction book is. So whether it's, you know, related to couples of money or just something, um, you know, some kind of self-help improvement life improvement book. Uh, I probably should've warned you before so you could think about it.
In college I took a course, I minored in philosophy and I took a course on the philosophy of science and I read a book called the structure of scientific revolutions. I think it's Thomas Kune and it was such like an incredible study of how scientific theories, uh, evolve and become the accepted theory. And then when the data starts to not, uh, fit, then how there's like this kind of interesting process that seems to repeat itself. And uh, then they eventually get replaced by a new theory that fits the data better. And I don't know, something about the way the world works and the way humans operate and like how there's like the zealots of the old theory and they try and cling to it even though the data's no longer fitting it and they try and change it to fit the data. And it's like, it just is a fascinating study of human psychology for sure. Um, but also right now I'm like reading, let's see how far into it I am. I just picked it up off of my table like maybe a quarter of the way through this book called the wisdom of insecurity by Alan Watts. And it's a remarkable piece. Like I can only read a couple pages at a time. It's just such a, so much depth of [inaudible].
I don't even know the book. It's really, it's really just about the nature of how life is fundamentally insecure and like, and uncertain and how we grasp for certainty and how that actually causes so much of our pain and suffering and about that we can actually live in love live in the moment live now if we relinquish that desire. And for me, someone who has dealt with a lot of anxiety and desire for security, that's a big, a kind of growth edge as they call it these days, like a place for me to expand. So I'm really getting a ton every time I pick up that book.
That sounds really interesting and we're going to have to check that out. Yeah. Well thanks for coming on today.

Do you have any last words of wisdom?
You know, um, my pleasure. Again, thank you for having me. Um, what I really want to impart to the world is that having these dialogues can bring you closer in your relationships and people kind of stay away from the money conversation because they think it's going to go poorly and, um, they're going to just end up uncomfortable or fighting. And the truth is right. Like if you don't talk about it, that's what's going to eat away at your intimacy in your relationship, let alone your finances could very well be worse off. But it's by having these conversations and having them in a constructive, productive way, which is what, of course I am to support people in doing that, you can actually have a better life, stronger relationships, more freedom financially, and actually live in a line, a way that's more aligned with your values and your goals.
That's awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming. It was such a pleasure to talk with you. My pleasure as well. Thanks, Ashley. Thanks.

Special Guest: Adam H. Kol, J.D. .